I was there the same time but in reverse roles.  ie Traffic Branch 1977-1980 Rail Stations and Signal Box (signalman) then internal transfer to the Locomotive Branch 1980-1984. (Delec Enfield)

Unqualified Trainee Engineman as a cleaner (few weeks) Trainee Engineman 500 hours, (few months) Class One 1,000 hours (about 1 year) then fireman/observer Class Two (thereafter about two years) up to the Class Three acting drivers school. (another year)

Yes a lot of characters there at DELEC.

At first I did not like Benny "the head cleaner" but he "stuck up" for me after a Broadmeadow engine crew out of barracks, wanted me to clean the front outside windows of a couple of 44 class engines on the departure road. I was young, raw and green then as trainee engineman/cleaner and slipped off the nose on the outside of a 44 class right into the six foot. (wet hands from cleaning the windows of the first 44 class)

Benny let 'em have it in his squeaky voice and told them off that if they wanted windows cleaned on the outside of locomotives to see him first and the shed crew to pilot the diesels back into the shed for cleaning and with the shed ramps. The Broadmeadow engine blokes ducked for cover. Benny made me the "kit" cleaner after that which was an easy job (bucket safety equipment-flags, chocks, det's etc) Found out later that he was an ex steam driver, but had a major accident, and RMO would not allow Benny back out on the road I was told. Only Head Cleaner on Drivers wages, but Top Bloke I found out.

"Freddy" was the other head cleaner on the alternate shifts.  Quiet nice fellow. I Never had "Reg or Tom" but only the Lenny Wilde on my back as the Shed chargeman  (more for me as the shed fireman)

I went out on the road in late 1980 (out of the sheds at DELEC) I kept a log book the whole time I was there till I left of every locomotive and driver I worked with, but lost or threw the personal log books out. Silly me!

I did fire for short stints for Barry Mosley, and Terry Crowe before he transferred to Yerongopilly. (No not Russel Crowe!!) Then fired for Tony Ryan and Vince Jelley for nearly 3 years combined. (both RIP Engineman Barracks in Heaven now) I know of or have worked with some of the fella's names you have mentioned, especially on the pencil Rouseabout roster with no regular mate. (perm. driver/fireman combination) ie a different driver every day. Some were good, some not so good. Human nature I suppose.

I come back in the year 2000 as shunter/examiner at Botany. There was some new faces on the engine crews from Delec, but still a lot of the older blokes who were still there, (and did not go to City Rail or National Rail)
Ray "Kojak" was still there. On the two way radio......"Oveeeeeer" but good capable driver.
John the Baptist, (stopped driving the taxi though on his days off) had a long conversations with him in the meal rooms.
Johnny Richards was also there (red haired) and top bloke; and some of the old DELEC faithful.
I suppose I can go on all night, but better not. It's vigilance button time now. (other wise an "all night sitter" and bore you to tears on a shunting engine )

That's right Benny Cooper (head cleaner Delec, ex steam driver Enfield)
Hans Schmidt (most senior steam/diesel driver in NSW > 50 years)  
Few others I remember
: George Montgomery.
: Toby (one wooden leg driver on the Enfield Yard Shunter Engine)
: Jack Patterson AFULE state president (fired for him for a while as a senior DELEC fireman on the cab committee AFULE) : Lee Allsop (AFULE Delec Union man) I did not much conversations out of him as his fireman, but he did mention at the time, ie. early 1980's that he and AFULE where proposing a max. 6 hour shift as the diesel engineman in cabs of locomotives in traffic, (service) over a 7 hour shift and a 35 hour week. (similar at the time as the Sydney Ports crane drivers) That never got off the ground with the NSW State Rail. (David Hill)

He also said that the AFULE where proposing getting rid of Barracks work. ie. Going to another location to rest for a min of 8 hours. and bring in more relay train crews in more locations. ie. shorter distances travelled but was an uproar from the rank and file engineman, because a lot liked barracks work and long distance work (and away from the missus and kids for 24-36/48 hours) 

Also Mongel Mick or "Mad Mick" the fuelman and a lot of stories there too about large diesel fuel spills near the humpy, or the Delec train driver who pinched the diesel fuel for his old landrover and probably wrecked his old landrover engine/motor at the same time Aaahh well the good old "mischievous" days hey mate

Nice to hear your memories, funny how our loco/traffic service was almost the same, but reversed.
re Benny and the Head Cleaners. Reg and Tom were old, they must have retired in the late 1970s.

Benny was alright, with his bald head, Shunter's grey felt hat, bib and brace overalls, wrinkled old face and boxer's nose, but he was at times a lot harder on the Trainee Enginemen (Unqualified) than Reg or Tom. Both Reg and Tom used to growl at us a lot but were otherwise harmless. I'll explain.

In 1976 there were a lot of Trainee Enginemen both unqualified, and qualified. The qualified ones rarely did cleaning in the shed, as there was a shortage of enginemen qualified to 'go on the road' as was the term used back then.

Those qualified Trainee Enginemen rostered on cleaning in the shed rarely did a full shift cleaning, invariably after an hour or two they'd be summoned over the loudspeaker system to the sign on room, when a fireman (as anyone qualified to ride on a loco was still commonly called) had failed to turn up, or had rung in sick on very short notice for his rostered job.
Most of the Trainee Enginemen (unqualified) were rostered on day shift, with with either a 6.00am or 7.20am start. A handful were rostered on afternoon shift (2pm and 3pm start) and nightshift (10pm and 11pm start). Some of the Trainee Enginemen might have to wait some months before they could become qualified, and were kept employed doing various cleaning jobs. Benny (Tom and Reg) only worked the dayshift, for the other shifts the Shed Chargeman supervised the Trainee Enginemen on shed cleaning duties.

There were never really enough jobs for all the Trainee Enginemen (or T.E.s) on dayshift.
(1) be allocated to clean loco cabs on the departure road with a mop and bucket.
(2) be allocated to clean diesel loco cabs on number 1 road in the shed (with mop and bucket)
(3) be allocated to clean diesel loco windows on number 1 road in the shed
(4) be allocated to vaccuum diesel loco cabs on number 1 road in the shed (particularly the ashtrays which were always overflowing with bumpers)
(5) be allocated to clean 46 class cabs with mop and bucket
(6) be allocated to clean 46 class windows
(7) be allocated to kits on the diesels
(8) be allocated to kits on 46 class
(9) be allocated to buckets on the 46 class (the 46 class had no water storage or wash basin for the crew, so a metal bucket of water had to be placed in the engine room, this needed to be refilled)

Two would be allocated to the spray pits, to steam pressure spray the underside of diesel locos, specifically the traction motor covers and cables, so the fitters wouldn't get greasy. Locos only went to the spray pit when they were due for a service or inspection.

The rest of the T.E's would be allocated to wax and polish various locos in number 2 road and another road near the Chargeman's office where locos were in for a while for varying degrees of overhaul. This could be a dozen more T.E.s, sometimes more, on dayshift, other than those on the other cleaning jobs.

Anyone rostered on the cleaning cabs and windows jobs listed usually did them fairly conscientiously and well, but "wax and polish" duties was a different matter. There was a real feeling of "mission impossible" when allocated to wax and polish a grimy old 44 class, or just about any of the locos. The wax we were given was a thick soupy white stuff, and we were given recycled rags to apply the stuff with and buff it off. It was very difficult to remove the grime, mostly the wax was applied over the grime and buffed off, in effect putting a shine on the grime.

422 and 421 locos were mostly pretty clean, so if you had to wax and polish one of them it wasn't too bad. I was told by T.E.s that had worked at Eveleigh that this was because these loco types were frequently used on south bound passenger services Spirit of Progress, Intercapital Daylight, Southern Aurora) and the Eveleigh T.E.s were made to do a good job on them, but they could rest in the meal room, talking, smoking, playing cards, reading the paper, once they had finished waxing, and the Head Cleaner would then know where to find them when he needed them. Seemed like a good system to me, hard work rewarded.

In Delec it was different. The T.E.s skulked in the shed the whole working day, only being permitted to go to the canteen for morning tea or lunch break. In theory we were not permitted to sit down in a loco or anywhere else, but in practice we frequently did, always being on the lookout for Reg, Tom or Benny, who would prowl around at unpredictable times, and growl at us if they caught us sitting down or not actually working.

I read recently that 34% of Australians smoked in 1980. I don't know what the figure was in the late 1970s, but 95% of Trainee Enginemen smoked, and I reckon about 90% of all Enginemen smoked back then. Frequent unofficial smoke breaks were had, either standing around in the shed, or sitting in loco cabs (with the loco mirrors set to see anyone approaching from behind).

One day I was assigned with two other T.E.s to wax and polish a 422 class in a quiet road near the Chargeman's office. Benny surprised us in the cab sitting down, chatting and smoking and sent us home (without pay for the rest of the shift). I got a bung a few days later written in official wording advising of the fact that I had been found sitting in the cab of 422xx (I cant recall the number and don't have the bung anymore) and had 3 charges, the first being "Idling my Time", I don't recall the second, and the third charge being "Misconduct within the meaning of the term". I was given a fine of maybe $10 or $25 as well. Fair cop I suppose, but this was a rare penalty, to be sent home without pay, and fined, in reality a dozen T.E.s should have been sent home every working day.

On another occassion I was in the canteen outside of the official lunch or morning tea break with a group of other T.E.s and Benny again signed us off duty and another similar bung and fine followed. I bore no grudge, though I'd like to have seen the penalties be a bit more evenly applied, or not applied at all. Possibly he had warned me, or others on previous occasions, I don't recall now. On at least one occasion after Benny gave me a lift to Lidcombe station after work. He advised he lived somewhere near there.

The rumour that was common knowledge back then as to how Benny came to be Head Cleaner was very different to what you heard. I won't repeat it here as it would seem a bit mean spirited, and fact is I don't know what the truth was. He would be quite old now and is very likely in an old folks home or no longer with us at all.

I think the whole culture in Delec probably changed into the 1980s. I kept contact with a driver long after I'd gone, who advised a new DLE (District Locomotive Engineer) came along who put a new broom through a lot of things there, including how the fitters and labourers worked, demolishing their humpys under number 2 road fitted out with benches and TVs, among other things. Even by 1977 cleaners were starting to be employed to take over some of the cleaning jobs in the shed that were being done by T.E.s

Like you I also almost came a gutser on the Departure Road. I also had to clean windows on Departure Road once. My first day at work was directly after the Easter long weekend in 1976 and Departure Road was chock a block with locos of all kinds. Me and another T.E. were given the job of cleaning the windows. At that stage we had to mix white powder with water into a thin solution in a bucket, apply it on the window with a rag, then wait till it dried, then remove it with a dry rag.

The other T.E. applied the solution to all the loco windows, and armed with rags I had to follow behind and wipe it off. It was awkward clambering onto the noses of the 42, 43, 44 and 421 classes to get at the windows, without the benefit of any kind of raised walkway, like existed in the shed. I didn't come a gutser that day, but a few weeks later I was assigned to clean cabs on Departure Road. This required you to stand around with mop and bucket near the south end of number 1 road outside the shed as this was close to where the shed crews parked and prepped departing locos.

I looked down the departure road and saw a 42 class, number 2 end leading coming slowly in my direction on the road parallel to the departure road. Nothing odd about that. I must have become distracted, and saw a rag laying between the rails, in the 4 foot of that road just in front of me. The Head Cleaners were always growling at us about rags laying around, so I took a few steps forward leant over and picked it up. Just as I started to straighten up I was hit by the 42, hard in the shoulder. As I was already moving backwards, the hit pushed me back harder, away from the loco, spinning me around. My shoulder really hurt, and I felt really embarrassed as it was such a stupid thing to have done. I had seen the 42 approaching but had momentarily forgotten all about it when I saw the rag. I wondered, if I had leant forward a couple of seconds later, whether the hit would have propelled me forward and fully into the path of the loco. No one seemed to have witnessed the incident, and there was no way I was going to report it. My shoulder was stiff and sore for a few days, but that was it. In all my time on the railway that was the closest call I ever had. The afternoon and nightshifts were better, as there was never any 'wax and polish' just a few guys, divided between the departure road, 1 road, and "the 46 side", as it was called.

Most of the Chargemen were alright, except one, who often refused to sign our daily work sheets till exactly the sign off time. Most Chargemen were a bit of a pain about this, as the sign off times were on the half hour (e.g. 10.30pm) but the bus to take you to Strathfield station always left at 25 past the hour (e.g. 10.25pm) so we would always try to get them signed at 10.20pm, to allow us time to get to the bus, otherwise another half hour wait ensued. Most of the T.E.s unqualified were teenagers and many of us did not have cars, except older guys like Kojak and John The Baptist who had cars.

On at least a couple of occasions a rostered shed driver, in the Chargemans office to get a listing of what loco needed to be moved where, would stick up for the humble T.E.s and tell the Chargeman to stop acting like a bastard (or words to that effect) and sign our sheets. I can't recall a single Chargeman's name now, except possibly one was named Stan Smee, (unless I'm getting that named mixed up with a loco inspectors). He was alright, I don't think he ever made anyone miss the bus, though he'd usually sign the sheet growling. Chargemen were all ex drivers, and in the later stages of their working lives. I was told they had given driving away due to the long and unpredictable hours that driving provided, preferring the stability of fixed shifts and rosters. I don't know if any had given away driving for medical or other reasons.

I remember being on kits too. Best job for a T.E. in the shed. You had to be qualified back then to be put on it. Checking the kits of all the locos on Departure Road and adding what ever was missing. There used to be a locked cupboard underneath 1-2 road at the south end of the shed with all the kit spares. And you'd have a key on a large brass ring for the cupboard, it had to be kept locked, too many thieves around !

Yes; If I do recall Stan Smee was a Chargeman not loco inspector. There was another Chargeman Jack (not Jack Patterson)

Cedric Fraser was the chief Loco Inspector at Enfield but a couple more too; but names I cannot remember. Bob........put me through Trainee Engineman on the road and Class One. John "someone" for Class Two (permanent fireman)

The TE cleaners hours were still the same. 6am, 7:20am, 2pm, 3pm and backshifts 10pm 11pm, ie 8 hours and 20 mins shift with unpaid 20" meal break. I'm not sure when you were there, but we did not sign off anymore with chargeman. We were given tokens from the Engineman sign on room and handed them back in at the end of each shift. Names recorded via the roster clerks or Zona chargeman.

But luckily for me only three weeks in the shed cleaning fulltime, then TE training school and most shifts after that "on the road" as a fireman either on the engineman pencil roster or called out of the shed.

I met a young driver (Tony Ryan) who I was shed firing for the day. I asked him if he was looking for a regular mate. After he agreed, Eric Kidd the senior Roster Clerk put as together as regular Driver/Fireman combination.
Was only a Class One Engineman on my 1,000 hours (first year) but always on the engineman roster, not cleaners.

They also had a shortage of trainees and fireman at Delec in 1980 so I was there at the right time.

A couple of blokes I met at the TE school were at Eveleigh. They said they were always in the shed cleaning. (wanted to be a fireman on the diesel passenger trains-high wheelers)

I told them about Enfield Delec and it was one of the quickest depots in NSW to get your hours up to become a perm fireman because of shortage. So they both transferred to DELEC and never looked back.

Benny was OK to me (at first he put me on the 46 class wax and polish) and hated him for it but changed my mind after my incident cleaning the windows.

I left Delec and State Rail in the mid 1980's. Was going through a ID crisis as senior fireman/acting drivers school ie itinerant 24/7 shift work was starting to wear me down, and yes, missed my mates/girls on weekends Fri nights etc. I was also witnessed (as a fireman) two level crossing incidents. Not our fault but still started thinking about it a lot.

I asked the DLE (District Manager D.M) at Delec for time off-unpaid leave (after using all my holiday and sick pay up) He told me "no" but did tell me, "come back when I want and told me he would put me back as a TE again within a year or two" ie no questions asked. I did regret leaving about 1 year later and went back to see him. He wasn't there anymore and asked the new DM about it, and told me "no vacancies--either TE, cleaners or shed staff.
I was "kicking" myself and tried unsuccessful to get back on with the new "criteria" exams. (previous rail experience no advantage) It was like a HSC exam paper. (David Hill bought it in) So only the best of the best got through.

A lot of would be/could be train driver University drop outs were recruited off the street (after media ad's) But was told later a lot started falling away like flies after a year or two. The fun and glamour driving choo choo trains soon wears off.

I did come back eventually many years later, but become redundant after privatisation with FreightCorp P/N, but before I left I found a list of drivers names at Enfield (2005) I will show you later a list of the then 2005 Enfield drivers (roster).

Interesting to read your recollections, it stirs many memories

Regarding the sign off sheets for the T.E.s we also had round brass tokens, with numbers stamped unevenly onto them. Mine was 155. When you were a T.E, on arrival for the day you had to ask the Sign On Clerk in the Sign On room for your token, by number, through a little sliding window. The Sign On Clerk sat next to the Zona Clerk, and Zona Chargeman (Zona Chargeman was a totally different role and location to the Shed Chargeman)

I believe by 1980 or not long after a new Sign On Room had been built next to the Canteen/Mealroom, on what was a patch of grass. When I left at the end of 1978 this was starting to be dug up. The old sign on room was at the front of an old single level brick building that also held the DLE's office, other admin staff's office, and of course the Roster Clerks. The Pay clerks who calculated all staff's fortnightly pay sat in old fibro or weatherboard buildings behind the car park, not far from Departure Road.

Sometimes the Sign On Clerks were in a bad mood, and would make you wait for your token, even though they were all hanging in a little wooden frame within arms reach of his seat. You also had to hand in your token to the Sign On Clerk when going on meal break and collect it back when meal break was finished, and finally hand it in again at the end of the day. Again a Sign On Clerk might be in a stroppy mood and refuse to take your token, slamming the window shut and making you wait. As a T.E. you were left in no doubt that you were bottom of the food chain in the large pond that was Delec.

The Head Cleaners only worked day shift, after collecting your token, locking your bag in your locker in the change/shower block, you would then walk to the Head Cleaner's 'Office' which was a small brick building near number 5 road I think, outside the north end of the shed. Here you would be allocated your (cleaning) job for the day.

You also had to fill in a piece of printed paper with your name, token number, level, (Trainee Engineman Qualified, Unqualified, etc) date and time started and finished, time of meal break, and what cleaning job you did. Wax and Polish was usually written as 'Diesel Panels' with the loco or locos numbers that you had polished. This sheet had to be signed by someone in authority and handed in at the end of your shift, with your brass token, as this sheet went to the Pay Clerks to calculate your pay. No signed sheet meant no pay for that day.

For end of dayshift a Head Cleaner signed it. For the end of Nightshift a Head Cleaner was there to sign it. Only for afternoon shift was the Chargeman needed to sign it. One particular Chargeman too often refused to sign the sheet for T.E.s who had a 10.30pm or 11.30pm finish, till the actual minute was reached. This meant the next bus was 10.55 or 11.55pm. Train services were pretty lousy at that time of night in the mid 1970s. Many of the young T.E.s lived way out west, Campbelltown area, Penrith area etc, one or two lived in the Blue Mountains. Waiting the extra half hour for the bus could add an hour or more to the actual time you arrived home (for what was already a long trip on an all stations train). On a Saturday or Sunday night, if catching the 11.55 bus it was not possible to get home at all till the first train the next morning many hours later.

I checked the T.E.s roster one week and saw I was on the 3pm to 11.30pm shift on a weekend and saw I would not be able to get home if that Chargeman was on. Other T.E.s agreed it was bad and that I should see a union rep. The union was very powerful in those days, with 100% membership and popular, I doubt anyone would have elected to leave it even if membership wasn't compulsory (how times have changed).

Union Leaders from the AFULE were sometimes on the nightly news, and when one was suspended from driving for some reason, TV news film crews came to Delec to interview him and make a news story about it. A number of Union heavyweights worked at Delec. One of the T.E.s pointed out one on the Union Leaders who was on 'Local' (which meant a crew on Standby to relieve any crew on long hours, or to do any other job that came up). He was sympathetic when I explained the issue, and put his arm around my shoulder like a father and took me straight in to the Head Roster Clerk, explained that it "was unsafe for a boy my age to be made to wait from Midnight to Dawn on a deserted railway station for a train home". The Head Roster Clerk immediately changed the roster so that I finished at 10.30pm, so that even if I did miss the 10.25pm bus I would at least still get home that night. Next time the Head Roster Clerk saw me he said to just ask him if I had a problem with the roster, no need to get the union involved. He was probably right, and I didn't like to go to the union, but I felt I had no authority, no influence and no power on my own.

A few weeks later I decided to try settle the matter, so that it would no longer be an issue. There was no way even the union could get the bus timetable changed, so our finishing times would have to change. We had to do an 8 hour shift, with unpaid time for a break added on, so I wrote a letter asking that the meal break be reduced from 30 to 20 minutes, so that our finish time would be 20 past the hour, leaving 5 minutes to spare to catch the bus. The change was duly implemented, the Head Cleaners seemed impressed with my initiative. Not so some of the T.E.s who were pretty mad at only getting a 20 minute meal break. The angry ones all had cars.

Regarding wax and polishing 46 class. Actully I recall these were the dirtiest of all locos. The greenish brown grime on the roof washed down the sides when they were operating in the wet. You could often barely read the painted on number on the front for grime. And they were painted a dull red over metal, and the paint and metal was often deeply pitted, making it hard to wax. Whereas 422 and 44 class had what seemed to be fibreglass coated panels on the sides which was easier to get clean. Maybe it wasn't fibreglass but the side panels seemed to flex when pressure was applied, and they were was easier to get clean.

Like you I had little hard covered log books that you picked up off the Sign On Clerk called Memo Books, and recorded a lot of detail in them. In 1992 I moved house and my wife urged me to be unscrupulous and throw lots of 'junk' out, and these books got thrown, all bar one. Now seems to have been silly to have thrown them out, they took up little space.

I did the 2 week Trainee Enginemen school (all theory mainly concentrated on safe working) conducted by Loco Inspector Warren Bull, in a very old training room in an old building somewhere near Museum station, in the City. Warren Bull was a great guy. All the T.E.s in my group were teenagers, one or two were maybe 21 years old.

I had a Staff Exam the following Monday at 8.00am conducted by Cedric Fraser at Delec, and passed. Then Tuesday and Wednesday consisted of 2 days of Ground Instruction by Inspector H.Wright, which involved coupling and uncoupling locos, hooking up the air hoses, jumper leads etc, more of less 2 days of being a Shed Fireman under H.Wright's watchful eye, and he passed me.

For Thursday and Friday I had 2 days of 'A' Trials. This meant two days of being a 'fireman' with a Driver, again accompanied by an Inspector, this time Stan Shaw. He had a reputation of being hard on young T.E.s but I got through OK, I don't think I gave him cause to yell at me once. Day 1 saw me rostered on at 6.45am for 733 Diagram, 500 West Local, which was light engine with 4436 from Delec to Clyde, then took a train (don't recall what but may have been empty oil pots) to Botany, then back to Clyde, where relieved, then call truck back to Delec. A trip to Botany was always included on your A Trial, as it required the fireman to ring for and get an electric staff from the machine at Marrickville Loop Staff hut, for the single line section. You then had to affix it to a cane and leather loop and harness to hand it out to a Shunter at Cooks River as you went past. We must have done shunting or had a lot of idle time at Botany, as total hours worked that day were 9 hours even.

Friday I was rostered on at 6.40am for 734 Diagram, again with a driver and Inspector Stan Shaw. This day we went call truck to Pippita, relieved the crew of 37 Trip on 48147. 37 Trip that day went from Pippita to Clyde, Clyde to Chullora, Chullora to North Strathfield, North Strathfield to Darling Harbour. There must have been some shunting and drop off or pickup of loading at those locations but I don't recall now. There we were relieved and went back to Delec for 8 hours 25 minutes worked. Stan Shaw told me I had successfully passed. I was now a Trainee Engineman Qualified, sometimes referred to as Trainee Engineman Other.

Crew shortages saw me immediately rostered on the next day, Saturday and Sunday, and worked the next 7 days straight, which in effect was 12 days straight, given the 5 days of training and tests that preceded it. I then had 1 day off, 1 day on (which was an 11 hour plus shift), another day off, then another 12 straight shifts.

This was the pattern for the next couple of years. I was frequently rostered for 12 straight days, then 2 days off, then 12 straight days again. Often I would be rung to come in on one of my days off, and dutifully did, so was actually working 13 days straight each fortnight. Often days off were wryly referred to as "Pyjama Book Offs" as you might finish at 4am on your day off, and be rostered back on 1am the next day. In effect you had to spend your day off sleeping. A typical day in loco at Delec was between 8 and 12 hours long

Like you Tony, I was young and knew all my friends were going out on Friday and Saturday nights, meeting girls, and having fun, while I seemed to constantly be at work. The money was great, but there was more to life than money, particularly when you are that young.

I resigned at the end of 1978. I rejoined in 1984 in the Traffic Branch. I figured that even though shiftwork was involved in Traffic Branch, that most shifts would be 8 hours with predictable start and finish times and predictable rostering which would allow some social life and free time. There was no way I was going back to the pencil roster at Delec.

Thought it advisable to write a bit more, while I have some spare time and am in the frame of mind to write about it.
Regarding your comments about the later T.E. recruits being university undergrads, etc in the 1980s.

In the mid to late 70s almost all T.E.s were in their teens or early twenties. There were always a sprinkling of older guys who were doing a "career change" later in life, but these were always the minority, 1 in 10 or less. Kojak and John The Baptist were the only two that I clearly recall as being already over 30 years old. Dave Watkins was a little older than most (I was told he later made Loco Inspector) but he said his parents insisted he learn a trade as his first priority after leaving school. He was maybe mid twenties.

I do recall another guy named Neil who was also mid twenties, who came from somewhere out St Marys way. He had long dark hair and beard. He was doing a Dentistry Degree, and for some reason had a year off, and joined the railway as a T.E. in Delec. In those days it took a about full year from the day you started to get to Engineman Class 1. He passed his 'B' Trials to become a Class 1 Enginemen and resigned the next week. He told me if he failed his last year of Dentistry he'd be back. He must have passed, he didn't come back.

Guys like this were not the norm. Most of the Trainee Enginemen might just as easily have been apprentices. Probably many applied as Apprentices and lucked out and were offered T.E. jobs. Few had senior education (Year 12), quite a few hadn't completed junior (Year 10). As a result some of them were pretty rough around the edges. Long hair was all the rage back then, and it was long, mostly shoulder length or longer, and some had facial hair as well. Tattoos and earrings were also sported by a few. Unlike today when it seems that everyone under 35 has tattoos as some kind of personality or fashion statement, in those days tattoos were for tough guys, army or navy servicemen, bikies, or people who'd done prison time. Few if any had any love of locomotives, or railways in general. If any did they kept it to themselves. Some talked about drugs, but I never saw any at work, used at work, or anyone obviously affected by drugs at work.

A couple of T.E.s got the sack while I was in the shed. Back then a criminal record would exclude you from public service jobs, and some didn't declare it when they joined up. When the police checks eventually came back (no computers in those days) they were summoned to the DLE's office and sacked. No use going to the union if you had form. One guy from Mt Druitt called Wayne tried unsuccessfully to appeal his sacking. Another guy from Mt Druitt named Steve apparently had a more minor conviction as the DLE spared him, after a talking to. He was embarrassed by it and wouldn't tell me what he'd been done for when I asked him.

A bit of bullying occurred amongst the T.Es, from time to time. This usually was resolved by other tougher T.Es who would pull the bully or bullies into line. The toughest guys didn't like to see the weaker guys being picked on.

I recall also hearing of drivers 'knocking off' diesel for 4 wheel drives, and the dire predictions it would ruin their engines. I have no idea if there was any truth in the thefts or the damage it might do.

Mongrel Micks only word was too rude to put to print, but it was his only phrase of English. I found it amusing that it was his answer to everything, the louder he said it indicated whether it was his used in as a friendly greeting, a non committal comment or a curse. He was a real character, shaped like a non festive Santa Claus. 
One thing that did occur often, was loco crew's cars were stolen from the car park. Several disappeared every year.

Lots of Trainee.Engineman quit in the first year or two. Similar reasons to myself I think, the 12-13 day fortnights, and long shifts of commencing and finishing any hour of night or day wore them down. Generally anyone who stayed long enough to make it to Class 3 Engineman was then in for the long haul.

Most Class 3 Enginemen (and above) were married, so possibly they were already more settled, though the hours must have put quite a strain on many of them. The pay was very good though, so this may have been a compensating factor. At that time (1970s) many wives made a professional life of being a homemaker and mother, though at least a few of the drivers wive's had their own careers.

At the north end of Delec, in Chullora there was a low rise complex of flats or units, 2 or 3 small blocks in total if I recall correctly, owned by the railway. These were for Delec drivers, their wives and children, in effect they were 'Married Quarters' like they have for military personnel. There was a waiting list to get a unit. They had the twin attractions of being 5 minutes from work and were very cheap, the rent being subsidised. They looked very unattractive, like 1960s housing commission flats, but there was never a shortage of drivers wanting to live there. They were commonly referred to as "Peyton Place" by older drivers. Drivers who didn't live there claimed that with driver's irregular and long hours there was a lot of "extra marital" activities going on there. I have no idea if it was just groundless rumours, or there was any truth in it.

It was said that Railway Detectives would 'set up' opportunities to catch thieves amongst the staff at many locations, including Delec. A common trap was said to be a brand new car battery left unattended somewhere around the shed on a weekend or after the day shift had gone home. The 'D's would place it somewhere they could see it at a distance, 'stake it out' and wait for someone to be tempted to pick it up and put it in the boot of their car. They would then swoop, and nail the guy. Many drivers swore this had occurred. This would very likely get the culprit the sack.

Once on afternoon shift, a new looking car battery did appear near number 1 road. I thought it curious, having heard the rumour. One of the rostered Shed (loco) crew saw it, and sought to foil the sting. He picked it up and ran as fast as he could with it, direct to the Loco Chargeman's Office to report he had found an unsecured car battery and wanted to turn it in so it could be properly secured. The D's hadn't expected anyone to run into the shed with the battery, so got out of their car, hidden amongst the driver's cars in the carpark and gave chase, arriving at the Chargeman's office just as the Driver had plonked the battery on the Chargeman's desk and made his 'sincere' statement. Nothing the D's could do to such an honest conscientious Driver, they left with their battery. I hadn't run to the Chargeman's office, I was staying well clear, but heard the story of what happened there later.

Regarding your list of Drivers from 2005. I'd be happy to see it. I don't actually recall any of the drivers you listed. I don't think I fired for any of them, but there were so many drivers at Delec its not surprising. One Union heavyweight who I was rostered on with once or twice was Dale Casson. The President of the AFULE was also at Delec, but was not the same guy you wrote of. I can't recall his name now but it will come to me. I'm pretty sure there was another union heavy with the surname of Stanaway, but I may be wrong.

Regarding Hans Schmidt. I don't recall him, but going through my only remaining log book, I was rostered with him at least once. Sunday 4th December 1977 I was rostered on at 8.16am for N93, STN 690, Spent Ballast Recovery train. We prepped 48154 at Delec, light engine to Pippita, shunted Pippita, then took N93 from Pippita to Thornleigh. I don't recall what N93 looked like, but spent ballast recovery trains usually consisted of flat wooden decked 4 wheel wagons, much like an 'S' truck without any sides or ends. We then were relieved on site later in the day, returning via public transport to Delec, signing off for a 7 hours 22 minutes long shift. Appears that at least one rail line or both were closed for this work as we had to catch a bus from Hornsby to Epping, then back on the train to Strathfield, then bus to Delec.

Time for "crib", I'll write more later

Thanks "Neil" for reducing the 30 minute unpaid crib break to 20 mins! I actually enjoyed it!!--Should have been a paid meal break, coming from the Traffic Branch (Stations/Signal Boxes) we all enjoyed paid 20 minute meal breaks on the straight 8 hour shift. Same when I got on the road as a TE, all paid 20 min Crib only on the spare occasion back in the shed did I have to do the 20 min crib my own time...ahhh them's the breaks hey.

Lived at Oatley at the time so always drove my car to Delec. I could do it in a 20-30 min's so no big deal. Only once (car in for repair) I went by rail all the way Oatley-Redfern-Stathfield-Bus-Delec. (nearly 90min's) so that's why I always went by car. PS: I conned a call truck driver to take me home at the end of my shift

I was a young feller at the time. (19-24 years of age at Delec) I had a bit of a friendly but larrikin personality and got on well with most blokes there, inc drivers, fireman, chargeman, Loco Inspectors and shed staff (fitters and mates) So never had any problems or clashes with others at the time.

Wow matey! You have a good memory. Unfortunately mine is not is good as it should be (and I should be doing more crosswords or brain training etc) but a "lot of water" has passed under the bridge since then, and various jobs.

I think Ray Morris AKA as "Kojak" was just appointed driver (3 or 5) and John the Baptist as a Class three when I first started (1980) ie newer drivers/mature or older age group than me. I remember a Neil Bickerton but transferred to South Grafton (SOG) with my old mate Tony Ryan--so probably not same Neil. Dave Watkins rings a bell.

Yes most Class Three's were there for the good. Married with kid's or with girl partners etc, so they did not mind the Overtime. I worked with a few drivers/guards who lived at "Peyton Place" My first regular driver Tony Ryan wasn't an overtime bloke, so we just did our shifts as required on the roster. But my second regular driver Vince Jelley loved the OT, so I was making big bucks (as a perm fireman) but not much social. Inc 13 day fortnights and sometimes 26 days straight. (one day off beginning of 1st fortnight and other end of 2nd fortnight)

After while with Vince I dropped doing all the OT he was doing, but sometimes I then had to wait a day or two to get back with him on the roster. (but Vince knew I needed social life as young batchlor)
The Uni or well educated Train Crew (Trainee Drivers for second persons) only started appearing after I left in the mid 1980's with David Hill OIC. (new recruitment guidelines--best educated only, thank you!)

If I had of stayed on and been appointed as a Class 5 Engineman Driver; I would have been in the last batch of Fireman/Observers to be appointed from the Locomotive Branch. (3 man train crew) Not long after that the brake vans disappeared and guards and observers become second persons. (2 man train crew) The Traffic Branch/Locomotive Branch merged.

I am trying to find the 2005 Enfield Drivers Roster in my paper files, and will show it as soon as I find it now!!

Quote: Thanks for reducing the 30 minute unpaid crib break to 20 mins. 
I was told that some of the T.Es were "going to get me" (that meant beat me up) for getting the meal break reduced. I didn't worry about it and nothing eventuated. Yes I think the T.E. job was the only one I ever had on the railway that had an unpaid meal break.

Quote: I will tell you blokes a "funny confessional story.
LOL again. That was a great anecdote. Expecting a sleepy night in the shed, and wind up in Broadmeadow instead. I remember how hard those 46 jumper couplers were to put in, the diesel jumpers just slid in and were easy by comparison.

I remember once going to Broadmeadow for a Barracks job with a well known grumpy driver. He wasn't an old guy, maybe 40. He was very serious and unsmiling when ever you saw him, lean with long limbs, with fair hair, I think his wife was a school teacher. He had a reputation amongst the firemen for being very unpleasant to work with.

Can't recall his name and that job is in one of the memo books I threw away, so can't look it up. He made me push the Vigilance Button the whole trip, which was no big deal, most drivers expected this, but if I lapsed and let the light flash even once, he would yell at me from the other side of the cab. I think it was one of the longest trips I ever had, the whole trip done in the hours of night, and with the type of rostering we were on (the 12 days straight) I was exhausted. It was one of those nights where I had no idea how I was going to manage to stop from falling asleep. He was the only driver I ever worked with who drank coffee in the cab. Every other driver brewed up a billy of tea on the hotplate, not this guy. He drank his coffee black and made cups frequently, and so did I that night, he was thoughtful enough to offer me a cup each time, though in those days coffee make me feel sick, but feeling sick was preferable to getting abuse and threats from this guy.

On a couple of occasions I had to fire for out of depot drivers, at short notice, when their fireman went sick in barracks. One was a Goulburn Driver. At that stage we had a T.E. in the shed who was a First Grade Rugby League footballer. He had just been signed to Wests Rugby League Club (when Wests played at Lidcombe and the Club was at Ashfield), and he had come up to Sydney from Goulburn. In those days footballers were not 'professional' and had to have a regular job, the money paid to play football was closer to beer and cigarette money, particularly as this guy was 'new talent' and yet to prove himself in First Grade. So this guy joined the railway as a T.E at Delec Enfield. This guy was mentioned a lot as a new star in the Sports sections of the newspapers, he was big news. I used to wax and polish with this guy in the shed. On breaks he'd sometimes jog down Departure Road to South Box and back.

I asked the Goulburn Driver if he knew of this guy, He said of course he knew of him, everyone did. I told the Goulburn Driver that he was working as a T.E. at Delec Enfield and he flatly refused to believe it. I couldn't convince him otherwise, he reckoned if I wasn't lying, then I was mistaken. He went on to be a player of some repute, including one State of Origin appearance. Gavin Miller. He has an entry in Wikipedia, but it doesn't mention his Delec days, not surprisingly http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gavin_Miller.

I don't think he lasted long at Delec, probably 6 months, the shift work in the shed must have affected his training days, being on the road would have been impossible. I spoke to someone who hailed from Goulburn a few years ago, and they said he owned a pub in Goulburn these days

All these names have started the memory bell back. I'm a bit shy now to tell you and the audience my name; but our/my trademark was "Jippor" or "Jack Jippor" in full. Tony Ryan gave me that. Not sure what it really meant, but we left our/my trademark in ink pen, on most diesels we worked on. Naughty boys again. I also had another called the "Oatley Boy or Oatley Rissole King" from the drivers/father and son of M and D Ritchie. I'm still nicknamed Jack, right even upto now. 
So some blokes do not realise it's my nickname.

Yes, even the electrics get the grime from the pantographs to the overhead. (like mentioned first day for me TE on the 46 class clean/wax!) and 4201 was still running around while I was there in Green and Yellow colours with 4836 (125th years NSWGR) and a couple more 42's around. But found out to be careful climbing in the cabs after a heavy night. I did also move the last 43 class as the shed fireman, from the paddock to the departure road, after that unknown address, prob. Chullora. (last 43 class retired that day and went out of service)

I know Warren Bull was very particular in the block schools, with also Cedric Fraser in Safeworking. I think at the time V/R engineman only had to know the basics as the V/R fitters etc went travelling/mobile to any defect on the engines/air.
But when I came back as a Terminal Operator (TO) as Shunter/Examiner, The Examiners course was condensed into 3 weeks from the old 8 week Car and Wagon examiners schools. Not only we had to trace the air all the way through the wagons and different wagon types, but they expected us to be a "wagon engineer". Thank goodness we had two patient and understanding instructors/assesors.

But in real life at FreightCorp as an examiner doing FX1's, we were only doing minor wagon repairers or cut the "air" out, any other problem out of Botany it was the green/orange carded for Enfield or Red Carded left in the repair Sleigh or Loco siding. But still even today they expect Train and Ground crews in NSW to know everything back to front and inside out. (ie Loco's and Wagons) Talk about 3 ground relays in the brain! (Snap )

I read some good yarns you wrote of your railway memories on this website. I think its worthwhile passing on some good old yarns from the recent past.

I worked with Greg Keenan my second day on the job. He was working the Spray Pits. Didn't work with him for very long, but thought he was a great bloke. He still wore his grey school trousers at work. Soon after he went to Trainee Engineman school to become 'Qualified' and Cuthbert advised he went on to become Loco Inspector

I spent more than 2 years on the pencil roster, only about 9 months in total of that time was with a few different permanent mates, I was with a different driver almost every shift the rest of the time. And with the pencil roster you only knew 3 days ahead at most, what you would be doing. Sometimes when you finished a shift in the morning you didn't know what time you were required next - the roster was still being updated, and you had to ring back later in the day to find out !

It was like an unobtainable dream to be on the pen roster where you knew what you'd be doing for a whole week ahead, sometimes longer. Those rosters had all the best jobs on them too, all the north and western freights, written in days and weeks ahead. The pencil roster seemed to have most of the smeggy jobs.

Someone mentioned a driver's name  he was a well known driver at Enfield. I fired for him at least once. I won't mention his name. Long after I left, and was living in another state, I saw he made front page news in one or more of the Sydney tabloid newspapers. The headline said "13 year old boy drove this train" with a photo of a big diesel hauled coal train underneath. It had a small photo of the driver and his name. He was a well known Delec driver.

The only Driver I kept in touch with from Delec visited me a year or so later when he was on holidays. I asked him about this story. He told me that the Driver in the story had bought his son along, on a Glenlee coal train. He had let him sit at the controls for a while, maybe telling him to open the throttle, apply the brake etc while the train was in operation. Everyone knows this was breaking the rules. I couldn't imagine the boy was unwatched and unsupervised for even a second, and I don't know how long he was in the driver's seat, but somehow doubt it was for long. He wouldn't have been the first or last person to have done this. This event would not have come to light, but the fireman reported what happened, and made an official complaint.

The "stuff" hit the fan big time, particularly as the media found out about it. This Driver was not very popular, when I was at Delec, and over the years that had not changed. He was known to be a bit of a mouth, and known to be quick to have a go at other people if he perceived they were less than perfect. However, apparently most of the loco crew in Delec were firmly behind him, due to the fact that he had been 'dobbed in' by his mate. That was a big no no. The loco crews in Delec were very dirty on the fireman. The Driver involved copped his penalty (cant remember what it was) and evidently is still driving. Not sure what became of his fireman.

And another short anecdote that I have remembered, maybe others heard it too, I think its worth repeating. This was not my own experience, but was told to me by one of the old drivers (who had originated from Europe) or someone who had fired for one of the old Europeans, I cant remember which. They were hauling a freight train in the Blue Mountains, hauled by at least one 46 class. The rails were wet and slippery, and having been stopped at a signal, they were now having trouble getting the train moving. The loco wheels couldn't get traction and kept slipping, they had a heavy load and were on an uphill gradient. They were moving at barely walking pace, and the driver got down and saw that the sand wasn't coming out of all the sand pipes (a spray of sand being directed at the rail just in front of each wheel onto the rail head, to assist the wheels with gaining traction).

The Driver got back into the cab, and removed the Train Brake handle from the brake stand. The Train Brake handle was quite heavy and solid being made of brass and told the fireman to get down and use the handle like a hammer to tap the sand pipes to free any clogged sand, so that they would work better, all the time while the loco and train were moving at walking pace. The Fireman bent down and commenced to tap away. The outlet for this pipe is only an inch or two from the wheel and rail. After a few taps, he dropped the handle. And the wheel ran over it, destroying it. Without this handle the train brake cannot be applied.....this is one hell of a situation to be in hauling a heavy freight in the Blue Mountains - the mountains are a series of up and downhill gradients and the train would be uncontrollable without the Train Brake handle, even on level ground, and the nearest replacement would be at Lithgow, Valley Heights or Delec. I think they must have been a doubleheader, and had to quickly scramble into the second unit cab to get its Train Brake handle. I think that's the last time either of that crew used a Train Brake handle as a hammer. 

Those 3 colour torches started to be issued in 1977 or 1978. Before that it was just the big heavy orange handlamp, one being handed over for each loco before you whistled out, and had to be handed back in when you bought a loco into the fuelpoint.  Glad to hear that decent jackets, and gloves started to be issued.

In the mid-late 70s, loco crews didn't have a uniform of any kind, and as far as I know, never had in the past either.

Loco crews could dress as they wished. Few dressed well, as it was only work, and pretty hard not to get at least a bit dirty or greasy during the day. Coupling up locomotives, made your hands dirty as did putting in the jumper couplers, hands were easy enough to get clean. Getting down between the locos to join the brake pipe, main reservoir and the two loco brake air hoses just about guaranteed you'd brush your back on something, and that something was always grimey, - much harder to get that clean.

Ratting around in the front nose area of a 44 or 48 (or any loco) to check the kit was also a good way to get some muck on your clothes, the insides of these were often quite grimey. The big locos, 42s 44s etc had an internal walkway right around the engine. Most submarines had more walkway room than what existed in these, and everything was filthy inside, again, very hard to stay clean if you had to go in there. A labourer was employed 24/7 on 1 road in Delec shed to mop the engine room floors free of oil and grease, and also to wipe the worst of the oil leaks off the side of the engine but it didn't make much difference.

Many enginemen wore a blue boiler suit, (full set of overalls) to work. If it was winter they might wear jeans/trousers and a shirt underneath, if it was summer maybe a pair of stubbies and a T Shirt underneath. Some enginemen preferred bib and brace overalls, not many. A few older drivers wore dust coats over their clothes, though this made them look a bit like inspectors. Some never wore any protective gear, so would go home with grease, dust or oil marks on their clothes.

It was announced that all enginemen would be issued with uniforms. I'm not sure if the union played a part in this or not, but in those days the unions seemed to do a lot of good for their members. This news was greeted as long overdue, particularly as Guards, Shunters etc had always had uniforms.

It took ages for the railway to get around to decide what the uniforms would be, and as far as I know no ordinary enginemen were included in the decision making progress, and there was a lot of unsupported speculation as to what they might look like. The first depot to get them was Port Kembla. A lot of Delec Drivers I worked with disliked Port Kembla crews. They were usually referred to as "Coast C****".

It was considered typical that "Coast C****" would be the first to get the uniforms. When some of our crews relieved coast crews and saw the uniforms for the first time, there was major disappointment from most. The uniforms were dark green 100% polyester King Gee off the shelf work gear. The same as you could buy from a shop. Truck Drivers commonly wore this gear. No markings or anything to indicate who you were employed by. The jacket wasn't even lined, just one thickness of thin material, not much use in the cold. Even though most crews seemed to think the uniforms were cheap, ill fitting, uncomfortable and generally smeggy, they were still happy enough to get them.

Some drivers, stated that this was the exact same gear given to guests in Her Majesty's NSW Prisons. When I asked how they knew what was worn in prison, they said one or two Delec men had served time. I don't know how that came about given I knew Trainee Enginemen who had been sacked for having a criminal record. Later a lighter green shirt was issued to replace the dark green, which improved the look of the outfit a bit. Another item that was never issued was gloves to protect your hands.

Some Enfield trip trains would take containers to what was called White Bay, a container terminal a bit past Rozelle. An ASM had an office or humpy there, and if you asked him, he would get 2 pair of gloves for the loco crew from the container terminal operator. These were issued to terminal workers on a daily basis - they got a fresh pair as often as they needed them, and when worn out thrown away. The gloves were white cotton, with a pale blue chamois like material stitched into the palms. They were perfect for giving shunting directions with, as being mainly white they were highly visible. They were not very well made and didn't last long. They were a sought after item, you never failed to ask for a pair when shunting White Bay. I don't know how or why gloves were not issued to Enginemen.

Hats were never issued. I don't know why, Shunters were issued felt brimmed hats. Guards were issued the rather useless hats as worn by station staff, but as most Guards had been Shunters at some stage most had a grey felt hat that gave some protection from sun and rain. These hats were hard wearing, lasted for years.

I spoke to a guy who was recruited in 1990 as a trainee engineman. He advised he had to pass a maths and english test. His memory isn't fantastic of all the events, even though it was only 21 years ago, but he advised the following: He did no shed cleaning, from day one did two weeks theoretical training at Petersham. Back in the 1970s early 80s this was run and maintained by the Traffic Branch and Shunter Training Schools were held there regularly (I did a 3 week course there in 1980 or 81, the practical learning done with a string of old wagons, moved about with an X102 shunting tractor).

They then did a bus trip to Goulburn and Newcastle stopping at all the sidings along the way to learn the frames, points etc, as this was after Guards were gotten rid of, pick up and drop off enroute was now the job of the fireman (makes me realise I joined in the "golden age" when I neither had to shovel coal, or leave a warm loco cab at night to do the shunter's role). He advises they stayed in Barracks in Goulburn and Broadmeadow, where they enjoyed a few lemonades and played euchre. This guy advised that he then thinks he did 2 weeks in the shed at Delec as a shed fireman, and was then passed to "go on the road". He only stayed for about a year, then resigned.

Looking back--seems only yesterday now, but sad to see old Delec has gone now. I think you should write a book or memoirs mate, you have a better memory than mine, but here is some from the "Cobwebs".

When I transferred from Traffic to Loco branch (1980) I wasn't a real gunzel (never even heard that name then) I liked the diesels but not a fanatic--and never carried a camera with me---but looking back now--I should have and kept all my diaries etc. Uniforms: After the transfer from traffic to locomotive branch, I swapped the traffic branch "blues" light blue shirt, navy trousers etc, to the locomotive branch "greens". As you mentioned it was all dark green at first, ie shirts, trousers and thin jacket. If I remember rightly (maybe wrong) it was not compulsory at the time and only half the engineman wore it--or variants. (some only wore the trousers/jackets and flannelet shirts etc) They did get rid of the dark green shirts for the light greens, and later the thicker weatherproof jackets. (I was lucky still having the half duffle coat jacket issued to traffic-station staff and 3/4 duffle coat shunters jacket and was great in frosty Goulburn/Lithgow)

The best times: High Wheelers and green lights to camp. Relief on the trip trains after 7 hours. Interesting conversations. (esp old steam drivers) Bacon/eggs/sausages on the frypan engine or barracks The worst times. All night sitters. Stuck in barracks (or sent home pass. after that) Stuck up drivers./lazy brake van guards. Big fella Shunters  All Traffic Branch  esp train control, senior SM's and Traffic Inspectors Eveleigh drivers, Goulburn, Coast and Broadmeadow. (them fighting words Bro. ) But Moss Vale, Lithgow and Thirroul engineman were all OK ie did not pinch all our work/or pick and choose it. 

Best experience: first daylight express to Broadmeadow and Goulburn. Worst experience; "Stuck Up" coalie on a coast train, in teaming down rain, one diesel failed, other two in consist wheel slip--had to arrange for relief engines. Memorable; I suppose most shifts there are all pretty good, but I did laugh taking an x100 class Delec/Enfield to Clyde down yard.

Taking 4201 in it's green and yellow livery on a empty wheat train. We were supposed to have a brand new air/cond 80 class engine in a hot summer day, but a someone in train control/gunzel overided the Delec Chargeman so we got 4201. We picked up the empty wheatie at North Strathfield and got as far as Menangle/Douglas Park--but had 3 ground relays and failed her.

Another time we had one and a half engines going south, Enfield to Goulburn. ie One main line diesel (I think a 442 and 48 class behind it) The 48 class would not "pick up" from the front engine via the jumpers, So I had to drive her (48 class) from the shafts; with the Train Driver: Vince Jelley's hand signal from the "Jumbo" 442, when to pick her up into eight notch and when to let her go/ease her up back into 1 notch. (no radios then)

Great to read some more of your memories Tony, your memories have jogged a few of mine. 

I recall that most Delec drivers had one big hate - and that was Guards. Most drivers saw these guys as bludgers having a sleep at the back of the train. On some trips guards may have had a bit of a snooze, but on the Trip Trains or long distance trains, when shunting, picking up or dropping off anywhere outside of a large yard, the guard was doing all the running around on the ground, and doing the paperwork of adding up the tonnages etc. The guards were paid less than drivers but not a real lot less, and many drivers resented this. Of course in my era (diesels) the fireman didn't do much either, and as I've mentioned before, some drivers also resented this, but at least we were enginemen. Only a few drivers had a strong dislike of firemen, and some firemen were probably more disliked than others. 

Time evidently resolved the Guard/Driver issue, when the guard's job ad brake vans were gotten rid of and the guard became the fireman. I wonder how some of the drivers reacted to that change when it was new, but that was after I'd left. 

I never envied the guard, on his own at the back of the train. When I was a Shunter I'd been in every type of guards van, and they were all uniformly dusty and dull. They usually had at least one long bench seat the width of the van that you could lay on, but being at the back of the train the inside usually had a heavy layer of fine brake dust. Of course there was no heating or cooling that I recall except to open or shut a door ! 

There was a general shortage of brake vans in the late 1970s and early 1980s. When I was a shunter at Enfield, on some days, complete trains were delayed, sometimes for hours for need of a brake van. When a train arrived and was broken up, the van was quickly rolled down to a water point, which was a large gauge water tap with a long rubber hose, and this was jammed onto the water intake pipe on the van, and as soon as it overflowed, indicating the water tank was full, the van would be shunted down to the back of its waiting train. 

There was also a shortage of locos. On many days there was a greater need for locos than were actually arriving at Delec. 
Every morning, very early before 'sparrows fart' , a list was made of locomotives forecast for the day for various scheduled trains, passenger and freight. This list was typewritten, with several copies made, in an office at Central station. The list had a specific name, which I can't recall. One of the junior clerks in the sign on room at Delec had to go in and pick it up at Central, then return to Delec with it. One copy went to the Shed Chargeman. He would update a blackboard in his office with the needs for the next 24 hours. 

The list would state loco types needed as '44' or '48'. 
'44' meant a mainline diesel was needed, not specifically a 44 class, so a 42, 421, 422, 43, 44, 442 or 45 class diesel could be allocated to that train. 
'48' meant a branchline locomotive, so any of a 47, 48 or 49 class could be allocated. As the 47 and 49 class home depots were out west and up north they were very rarely seen, in practice at Delec, 48 meant 48. 

The loco(s) need was based on tonnage of the day's trains, and where they were headed. A 1400 tonne train headed south would need a different amount of horsepower to a train headed north. In those days Delec crews also ran trains west and on the south coast line. The list might look in part a bit like this 
423S 7.55am Cooks River - Dynon 44 x 2, 
711SC 8.12am Enfield - Port Kembla 44 x 1, 48 x 1 
89G 8.24am Enfield - Glenlee - 44 x 1 
503W 9.05am Enfield - Broken Hill - 46 x 3 and so on to fill an entire page or more for the entire days workings. 
I think alternatives were given too, for example; 44 x 2, or 44 x 1 and 48 x 2. 

I'm not saying the list looked exactly like this, but was along those lines. It may also have had the projected tonnage of each train on the list. A copy of this list went to the Shed Chargeman. He updated his own list and a blackboard in his office by inserting in actual loco numbers, so he might allocate 42210 and 4206 to 423S as they were in the paddock, having arrived, fueled, sanded, checked by the fitters in the shed on 1 road, and cleaned, kits checked and replenished, and were ready to go. 

The Chargeman might also allocate 4426, 48121, 48162 to 711SC, those locos also being in a similar state of preparedness. He'd obviously keep the Sign On clerks advised as to what locos were on what job, as they'd write the loco numbers on the Driver's Sheet for him to pick up when he 'signed on', so he'd know which locos were his. The Driver would also be told if his loco(s) were already prepped or not. 

When preparing the list the Chargeman also had to ensure that none of the 42, 421, or 422 class locos went west or north. 43 and 45 were supposed to be rostered for the north where possible. 44 class could be sent in any direction. Of course there were exceptions to the rules at times, and over the decades the loco types had differing rules. One rule that never changed was no more than 3 locos on the front of a train. This was an unbreakable rule, involving the union. 

The Chargeman would make his own list of specific locos on hand and their required departure times, and this would be passed to the shift's Shed Drivers (and firemen) and they would assemble the locos on Departure Road in correct departure order. The list would be updated continuously as locos left, and new ones arrived. There was a constant trickle (some shifts more like a rush) of locos arriving for refuel and a check, before being moved to Departure Road, or if not immediately needed, to The Paddock. 

Sometimes the shed crew would also be asked to 'prep' the departing locos, to save the crew who were taking the locos out, some time. This involved putting in the jumper couplings, doing up the air hoses, testing the air and jumpers were working correctly, filling the water tanks (which were for the crew to wash with, not drinking water). Each locomotive had a metal rack with an empty glass wine flagon, this was topped up with water from a tap on the Departure Road. This lukewarm water was all the crew had to drink or make tea with. (no Air Conditioning, no fridges, not even a fan on any loco in those days). The toilets in the locos were also abominable, always smelly and filthy. 

Delec was very busy a lot of the time in those days. 4 shed crews (8 men) would be allocated to the Diesels for most shifts, and 1 shed crew (2 men) for the Electrics, which were only 46 class at that time. As crews 'whistled out' (as the term still was) with their locos on Departure Road, heading down towards South Box, the shed crews would move the other waiting locos down a bit further along the Departure Road to make room to add more. The crews could be kept very busy, sometimes for most of the shift. Some days or nights there was a fair amount of time spent lounging around in the refueler's humpy. 

When it was very busy (and no bosses were about on nightshift or a public holiday) my Driver might get me to make simple loco movements on my own, while he did likewise, for example we might each move a single loco from the fuel point to the entry of number 1 road in the shed, following each other down. If points needed to be thrown we'd work as a team, me hanging off the side, him driving. It could be a very busy 8 hours, taking locos to the shed, into the shed, out of the shed, to the Departure Road, paddock, spray pit, wheel lathe road, or other roads in and around the shed. 42, 43 and 45 class locos might have to be turned on the turntable to make sure they were facing Number 1 end leading for their trip to Broadmeadow, Gouldburn or wherever. On quiet shifts a driver might ask me to move some locos down to the shed, so that he could finish his round of cards with Mongrel Mick and the others, or finish his brew, or smoke. 

Despite the careful planning there were not always enough locos, particularly in 1978. There was a 'hierachy' or priority, and at the time Glenlee coals were lowest, and they would go unallocated if there were not enough locos. 
I can recall on some shifts being rostered on a Glenlee Coal. These basically did a run to Glenlee empty. They loaded at Glenlee, then went to Rozelle (via Enfield, or the goods line at Delec) where you dropped the loaded train, then coupled up to an empty coal train, then back to Glenlee, and repeat. This would go on 24/7 at times, and you would usually relieve a crew at Delec platform on their way to Rozelle. A mainline loco was usually rostered for these jobs, like a 44 or sometimes a 46 class. The same 44 would do this run for a few days till low fuel meant it had to come into Delec for refuel and a check. Then it could be rostered for anywhere. There might be more than one Glenlee coal train doing this circuit (though not too many or they'd hold each other up) I can remember being rostered on Glenlee coals and sitting in the Sign On room for 8 hours doing nothing, as there was no loco available. This was not an uncommon occurrence. 

Quote: Would that list be called the"AMBA"? Had to think long and hard to remember this one, but I may be wrong. I used to have that job of obtaining this list from Central when I was a Call Boy at Eveleigh in the early 80's. 
Well remembered !  I think that is what it was called. Definitely rings a bell with me. I'm pretty sure that all the loco hauled passenger trains were on it too. (Number 2 South, 4 South etc). I think many of the locos that arrived in Central of a morning (like 1 South, 3 South etc) wound up at Eveleigh, where they went through a similar process as locos at Delec, then were allocated back onto loco hauled passenger services leaving Central that evening. I can also recall at times having to take mainline diesels, light engine, from Delec to Eveleigh of a daytime for evening passenger services. 

Quote:  Guards that Stagnated - well ???????????? 
I guess they wound up as ETR (Electric Train Running) Guards. Delec drivers contemptuously referred to electric train drivers as Horizontal Lift Drivers, which makes the Guards the Lift Door Captains ?. When in Traffic Branch in the 1980s I was an Electric Train Guard at Punchbowl, for about a year and that has to have been the most boring year of my life to date. I actually tried to get back as a Shunter at Enfield but the powers refused my request. But all that is another story. 

Quote:   It was resolved really badly. The jobs that attracted tonnage payment were split 50/50, Firemen/Guards!... 
That sounds a bit divisive alright.  Back before this, (in my time in the late 70s) tonnage payments existed. I can't recall the exact rules now, but there was an additional payment for double header and triple header loco working (as the expectation was that only heavy tonnage trains needed multiple units). To get the maximum payment for either the double or triple, you had to actually be crewing the train for a minimum of 4 hours. I think for a Double the payment was around $16 and for a triple it was around $30. This was a fair amount of money in the mid-late 1970s. If crewing for less than 4 hours you still got a payment but it was quite a lot less, only a few dollars. I'm not sure if the guards got this multiple unit allowance or not, Back then the heaviest trains were 2000 tonne coalies. I guess much heavier trains run these days 

This brings me to one reason why South Coast crews were intensely disliked by Delec crews. In those days there was a lot of freight running between Wollongong/Port Kembla and Sydney/Enfield. Much of this working was multiple unit, in particular triple header working.  For some reason, many of the freights heading down the coast were what was called 'Changeover' working. Delec crews almost never Booked Off at Barracks down the South Coast. (we only had one regular job where that occurred, a night time milk train) This meant that the Roster Clerks at both locations would look at trains departing from Port Kembla and Enfield at about the same time, with the idea being that the crews would 'Changeover' (swap trains) about half way. In theory this was a good idea. In practice it almost always worked out to South Coast crew's advantage, 

For example 713 SC might be scheduled to depart Enfield at 7.00am, destination Port Kembla. Down at Port Kembla 720 SC might be scheduled to depart at 7.10am and head to Enfield. Both trains in theory would meet about half way down/up the coast, the crews would change over, and head back to their own depots. In reality the Delec crew might still be sitting in Enfield yard at 10am, waiting for loading from another train that hadn't arrived, waiting for a brake van, waiting for a brake examiner, waiting for a guard, waiting for another locomotive, always held up by something. Meanwhile the coast crews never seemed to get these delays, they left on time, had a fast run up the coast, so you would do the Changeover in the yard, not having been anywhere, but also not having turned a wheel, so not making up the 4 hours minimum needed to get multiple unit allowance ! 

I often never left the yard, or maybe got as far as Meeks Road (Marrickville) to be stopped at a signal, then climbed down to ring the phone, to be told by the Signalman "your changeover is approaching".  Aside from the money, coast trips were popular as it was quite a scenic journey (that you had missed out on), and a welcome change from the rather dull shunting trips around the yards in the metro area. And most important for a fireman, you were not getting experience of the road/gradients/signal locations which was essential. Acting Drivers qualified and were examined by loco inspectors on the South Coast and Southern lines, so you needed to know them well. And the sooner the better. It wasn't the coast crew's fault. But we disliked them anyway.

I've tidied up some images. I can't get them much sharper in focus, they were only taken with
a Kodak Instamatic, so were never high quality, and 35 years in bad storage hasn't helped either.

CLICK  HERE  TO  VIEW  SOME  OLD  PICTURES
 TAKEN  AT  DELEC/ENFIELD

Most of the big overhaul jobs on locos was done at Chullora, but a few were done in Delec.

With a big overhaul, the pistons would be removed, and sometimes were left laying about. Even without the conrod attached these were huge and heavy. Some had flat tops and some had a slightly concave top (one was Alco the other GM). Some of the T.E's thought the concave topped ones would make good ashtrays. As the concavity was quite shallow, I didn't agree, but this didn't stop these things being stolen, on at least two occasions that I recall, to be taken home and used as 'ashtrays'. I remember one of the T.E's picking a piston up, wrapped in rags, and taking it to the locker room, where he put it in his bag, then walked down to the bus stop with it after work, awkwardly under his arm, as the handles of the bag would snap if he tried to carry it normally. He had to keep it hidden, as several fitters and labourers would also be walking down to catch the bus. I now wonder how long these things were used as "ashtrays", I think the novelty would have worn off pretty quick. 

I was asked to do the Spray Pit, almost from the day I started. It was an unpopular job. No one wanted to do it. One of the incumbents, Greg Keenan was going to Trainee Engineman school, so another inductee was needed. The Spray Pits had advantages and disadvantages. The advantages were that it was Monday to Friday only, 6am start, so no weekend or shift work. The Spray Pit crew were also 'protected' - when there was nothing to do, they were sanctioned to sit in a loco and do nothing. It also paid adult labourer's wages. The disadvantages were it was a very dirty job, and somewhat claustrophobic. On most of the other jobs in the shed you could probably go home without needing a shower or change of clothes. On Spray Pit you always needed a shower and to wash your hair, and change of clothes before you went home. 

The day started at 6am and there would always already be a mainline loco parked on the spray pit. The pit was a very shallow concrete trench underneath the loco, with 3 steps either end to climb in and out of. There was very little space between the steps and the start of the loco, the shed crew didn't always place the loco exactly in the middle of the pit. I sometimes could barely squeeze in, and if the loco had moved a few centimeters I'd be crushed. The locomotives were often left idling when parked on the pit. The trench was shallow, less than a metre deep, when a loco was parked on top you could only move about down on your haunches. The sides of the pit were lit by fluorescent tubes behind dirty scratched perspex along its length, but in mid winter it was still totally dark at 6am. There were drains with grates covering them the length of the trench, so that it couldn't fill up with water. Despite this it still sometimes filled to a few inches while you were working due to the high water pressure hoses we used, when gunk or maybe a rag might partially block the drains 

You would turn on a steam pressure spray, which also drew degreaser from a cut off 200 litre drum, and climb down the 3 steps into the pit and make your way along the underneath of the loco till you got to the set of wheels and traction motor closest to the fuel tank. Your job was then to steam pressure spray all the grease, oil and gunk off the traction motor and the cables that lead from the traction motor up into the body of the loco. 

It was difficult work, no safety gear was supplied other than gloves to protect your hands from the primitive steam pressure spray. There were goggles to wear but they were useless, condensation and water made them impossible to see out of once you got going. Great clouds of steam would obscure your view in the darkness, and the spray was very powerful, it took a lot of tensed muscles to control its direction, it was like a fire hose in diameter, and was attached to some kind of mechanical pump that gave it a pulsing, pumping action. The spray created a lot of noise which added to the discomfort of being in a shallow trench under an idling 100 tonne locomotive. You were spraying a metre or two from your body, and inevitably hot pressurised water would sometimes deflect back and you'd cop a face full of very hot water, and greasy gunk. You would do all 3 traction motors on the bogie, working your way backwards from the middle to the steps 

At the same time you had another spray pit cleaner working at the other end, on the other bogie, also starting at the traction motor closest to the fuel tank, and working his way back. This meant you were actually spraying in each other's general direction. Sometimes while trying to clean the underneath of the traction motor you'd hear a scream from the other end and you'd know that some of the water and steam (and gunk) had deflected on to your mate working on the other bogie. Then he'd retaliate by giving you a blast of the same. If I felt it was justified I might give another intentional blast back, so we'd both be screaming and cursing at each other. I'm not sure teenagers had the right temperament for this kind of work, but they couldn't get anyone else to do it, anyone with a bad back would do their back in, and I reckon a year of this kind of work would turn a healthy back to a bad one. This is why the job had its little privileges of no shift work, adult pay and protected resting status. And why people who did it for a while un-volunteered themselves from the Spray Pit. 

After you were done, you'd be wet, and dirty, being flecked in bits of grease and muck, from head to toe. You'd turn off the steam spray, and go and see the Head Cleaner, most often Reg, and he'd come out with a torch and check out your work. You'd have to go back into the pit with him and stand under the still dripping loco while he'd run a finger on the top of the traction motors, and behind the cables, which couldn't be seen in the cramped space under the loco, and if they came up dirty, it meant you had to do it again. These parts had to be as clean as possible for the fitters who would be dismantling them for Bogie Overhauls. Many of these were not being overhauled at Delec, but at Chullora, and a fitter from Chullora would also come out and give it another check, and if he didn't like it, you'd be made to do it again. All up you might do 3 mainline locos a day, usually being finished by lunch, often before if there were less locos to do. Going home time was 2.30pm so it made the day go fairly fast. 

If there was a report that a loco had hit a cow or other livestock you also had to spray the loco before the fitters would look at it. I was not looking forward to seeing guts and gore, but there was usually little mess underneath. The mess either didn't get much underneath the loco or 'fell off' along the way. You might have some hair or fur stuck to the underneath of the traction motors or some brown stuff splashed about to hose off. Only once I saw a length of what was probably intestine stuck underneath but it was all dried out looking so wasn't hard to deal with. 

I had a rubber hand I'd bought from a Novelty Shop. After I'd finished spraying I put the hand on top of a traction motor, after Reg had checked it, but before the Fitter from Chullora had arrived. I had to go under with the Fitter so would know where to respray if there was any part he didn't like. He almost screamed when he put his hand on it and looked up and saw the fingers. It was a dumb trick on my part but he took it well. 

There was one other lousy job that came with the Spray Pits, that luckily we rarely had to do. When mainline locos were going for a full overhaul, the bodies were removed from the engines. Some of the locos built up a lot of greasy gunk on the roof, around the exhaust outlet. On some this gunk was like tar or bitumen, a couple of centimeters thick and spread over several square metres. The Fitters wanted this removed before they would accept the loco. 

To do this we would have to climb onto the roof of the loco, which was parked in a covered open ended shed, next to the Spray Pit shed. We had leather harness around our waists. From these were attached two ropes with rings on them. These rings were attached to 2 parallel rails above the loco that ran the length of the shed. This harness was to save you from falling off the loco if you slipped. It was a very awkward way to get around on the roof. It also meant you couldn't get past each other. However this harness was really needed, as there was nothing else to stop us falling off the roof if we slipped. 

We had scrapers with long handles that we had to use to chip the built up tar-like grease off the roof . This was very difficult. We also hauled up 10 litre buckets of degreaser with diluted caustic soda in it and with coarse brooms would scrub the tar and surrounding areas of the roof, trying to loosen the gunk. This also made the roof very slippery. Reg would be trying to supervise from the walkway in this shed but he was metres below us, and couldn't actually see what was being achieved. Being on a 44 was bad enough, but 42s and 421's had a more pronounced curve in the roof, so the whole job was difficult on these types of loco. The caustic soda also produced strong fumes which didn't help. If we were not careful enough, and spread too much around, the caustic degreaser would run down the sides of the loco ruining the paint. This happened a couple of times, the Indian red of the sides of a 421 or 44 becoming streaked with pink. The yellow number on the side being bleached with white streaks. Reg would yell and grizzle and turn a hose onto the sides to wash it off but the damage was done. It was altogether a poor method to get the roof clean. We'd do our best and the loco would be grudgingly accepted, probably because it was thought we'd only damage the paint job more ! 

anyway below is a picture of one side of the front of a traction motor, this one on 4514 in Number 1 Road. 

Number 1 Road had full depth pits that you could stand up in, for the Fitters, unlike the Spray Pits shallow grave style of pit. I did have pictures taken inside the spray pit, but none have survived. 

When we were up to date we would sit in a loco on or near the spray pits so Reg could find us easily. One day we were sitting in number 2 end of a 44 which was idling, and my mate decided to mess with the Staff Exchanger, lowering and raising it several times. Later in the day Reg angrily asked us if we had been messing with the Staff Exchanger. We knew this was leading somewhere bad. Seems we had left the exchanger down, the Shed Crew hadn't noticed, and when they drove it out of the Spray Pit shed it became badly damaged on the Spray Pit shed Staunton. Reg pointed to the loco sitting outside Number 1 Road with the Staff Exchanger now being held in place with fencing wire. 

Reg yelled at us to have a shower get changed and get home out of his sight, or something like that. Fortunately it was time to have a shower and go home anyway.

Quote:  Being based at Bmd, we would often have to prep mostly electric locos, and often the 'kit' was short. Although we weren't meant to, we would often have to scrounge bits from other loco's, if the appropriate staff weren't available to issue any missing bits
I often wondered where all the bits went too. Most of the stuff had no practical use outside of the railway, and was engraved NSWGR or NSWPTC anyway. One night when I was on Diesel Kits for a few hours at Delec. I kept note of all the locos I checked and what was missing, still have this in my note book from 1977. Of 14 locos checked, only 5 had complete kits.

Quote:  As well as stabling trains at Delec / Enfield Yard, we would also leave our loads or pick up at Homebush Saleyards, Rozelle, and sometimes pick up a train at Clyde.  
Almost all my pictures were taken when I was a Trainee Engineman Unqualified. Mostly taken late in the afternoon, early in the morning, or on a weekend or public holiday when not many staff were around. Taking pictures was not considered cool. I wish I'd taken more pictures, and of all those places that don't even exist anymore or have changed totally, like Homebush Saleyards (hated shunting there, that place always stunk), Pippita, Darling Harbour, Darling Island, Rozelle, White Bay, etc. Once I was out on the road with drivers I stopped taking pictures. It was common to leave or pick up a train at the locations you mentioned, as well as Flemington Markets, Darling Harbour and Cooks River. 

I take it BMD is Broadmeadow. I remember being at Barracks there, and being woken up an hour before we were due to leave and having time to get something to eat at the staff canteen at the depot there. I was able to buy a burger (they didn't make burgers at Delec canteen, just sandwiches and boiled sausages on a bread roll, pies and sausage rolls) and at Broadmeadow they put yellow pickle spread on the burger. Like the 3Rs brand. It wasn't bad on a burger and is the only burger I've ever had anywhere that had pickle spread on it. I think Port Waratah had just opened and I went around the balloon loop for the first time, in 1977 or 78.